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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Klas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yes I’m concerned with being compliant as re-distributor
of OSS, and in this case GWT.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>>></span><span
class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>
not since they had referred to section 5 in their previous mail, stating that
GWT was "work that uses the library". Right?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>No not at all. </span></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>You can have a
work-that-use-the-library AND also bundle in the LGPL Binary. They are
not mutually exclusive. Google posted here that were a ‘work that
uses’, they also have documentation that says they bundle in the LGPL product
binary with their work. I just assumed both were true and hence it did
not alleviate my concern.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>So
again - If you package in the LGPL library as a binary with that work, you have
to provide source for the library.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Basic Summary:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>GWT has a license file ‘Copying’ that states JFreeChart
is included in the binary distribution and it says to get source at JFreeChart’s
website<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This was technically incorrect, from what I understand now, the
LGPL Product jFreeChart is not bundled in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The fact is Google is distributing GWT under 6b, with the
expectation that JFreeChart is pre-installed/acquired separately, etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The documentation should say this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So we are done with the confusion and I know why it happen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’ll live with Google’s lawyer dissing me as a case
who is off in left field.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If all you care about is if GWT Compliant with LGPL, stop here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As to my basic concerns as a re-distributor of LGPL:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If I re-distribute GWT with LGPL Product bundled in , I carry
the same obligations as Google for source code for LGPL. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>(the people on this site should have no argument that
re-distributors are just as liable under LGPL/GPL for source code)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If they are using 6b, I can leverage that, I can re-distribute
GWT with no concerns as there is no LGPL Binary included,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I do assume the end customer should be told of the JFreeChart pre-requisite
requirement, an issue of good documentation not license compliancy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, IF (only if ) they had bundled in JFreeChart binaries with
GWT then I stand firm on my ‘understanding’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you bundle in the LGPL product binaries you are not following
6b. You have to follow 6a, 6c or 6d. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>My preference as a re-distributor is OSS projects use 6a as the
approach, include the source for the LGPL Product in the package, at the same
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I can leverage this and when I re-distribute I can just use the entire
package and my obligations are met.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If they use 6c, a written offer, or even 6d, a same style access
as the binaries, as a re-distributor they do me no good. I have no right
to offer their offer to my customers, no control it will be in place for 3
years, etc. You cannot just point someone to ‘go over there’ and
be compliant as a re-distributor of LGPL/GPL. Everyone knows this right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So aside from me not liking 6c as a re-distributor, it would make
Google/OSS Vendor themselves compliant. Though in this particular case I
would question if getting source via a SVN site and the requirements that puts
on the downloader, reaches the ‘same manner’ requirement that the LGPL/GPL
have. Just a question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ok , so I’ve re-explained myself, my understanding and my
motivation. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Net, I don’t suspect my basic understanding of this
requirement is wrong and certainly don’t agree I am off in left field.
However, if I am way off, I am eager to be corrected and educated, here or
directly to my email<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:Allan.hardy@lmco.com">Allan.hardy@lmco.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Klas Skogmar
[mailto:klas@skogmar.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 07, 2009 2:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hardy, Allan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> chris@dibona.com; Daniel Berlin; legal@lists.gpl-violations.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Google is Violating LGPL Source Code<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hardy,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>what is your motivation behind all this? Are you working at
the procurement department, trying to ensure open source compliance for your
company? That is all fine, but you are ranting a bit without addressing the
actual points that Google are making in this case:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"<span class=apple-style-span>If you ship binaries for
the LGPL Product you have source obligations. Period."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span>That was not very constructive
- was it? Especially not since they had referred to section 5 in their previous
mail, stating that GWT was "work that uses the library". Right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span>/Klas</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2009/4/7 Hardy, Allan <<a
href="mailto:allan.hardy@lmco.com">allan.hardy@lmco.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>To the extent that no LGPL products are bundled into the GTW
binary I agree you are in compliance<br>
<br>
The license information in the distribution doesn't seem to reflect the current
packaging and licensing.<br>
So license compliance aside, it could be helpful if that is reviewed an
updated.<br>
<br>
If however if LGPL products are bundled into the binary distribution I am not
sure if we are in agreement. If this were the case I would seek further
discussion and whatever formal routes where appropriate.<br>
<br>
I do appreciate the quick response to this.<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
Allan Hardy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Chris DiBona [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdibona@gmail.com">cdibona@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 8:49 PM<br>
To: Hardy, Allan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Cc: Daniel Berlin; <a
href="mailto:legal@lists.gpl-violations.org">legal@lists.gpl-violations.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: Google is Violating LGPL Source Code<br>
<br>
Okay, I think this is now pretty unproductive. We are in compliance<br>
to my satisfaction, if you'd like to bring this up formally, I'm<br>
confident that we are doing the right thing here both by the letter<br>
and the spiritually.<br>
<br>
Chris DiBona<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Hardy, Allan <<a
href="mailto:allan.hardy@lmco.com">allan.hardy@lmco.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> So, help me understand, is JFreeChart part of the GWT binary
distribution<br>
>> or not?<br>
><br>
>>> Not current versions of GWT, AFAIK. It was never removed the
licensing<br>
>>> file.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Well geez, why didn't you just say the GWT Licensing documentation was in<br>
> error? Would have saved me and users in my company lots of time.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> So under 6b, JFreeChart is not shipped with GWT and is a 'pre-requisite'
or<br>
> expected to be acquired and downloaded/installed by the customer and GWT<br>
> will use it if it is there kind of thing.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I hope 1.6 cleans up such an error and calls out JFreeChart as a<br>
> pre-requisite before its productions release.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>>> I'm not sure why you would think this, since it is incorrect, and
this is<br>
>>> a commonly understood section.<br>
><br>
>>> But since we meet "your" viewpoint of this anyway, ...<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Meet my viewpoint? As In I am wrong and your right? Wow now
were getting a<br>
> bit uppity.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Yeah well I'm well aware of the requirements and law as well so I'd really<br>
> appreciate it if instead of just claiming I'm wrong and your right, you'd<br>
> take a second to explain. It will lead to a much more educated
world.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Just to be clear my whole point is that:<br>
><br>
> If you ship binaries for the LGPL Product you have source obligations.<br>
> Period.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am not talking about shipping a work that uses the LGPL product, but of<br>
> shipping the LGPL product itself.<br>
><br>
> (which is what GWT documentation led me to believe you were doing)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> There is nothing in 6 that alleviates this requirement as I see it and I<br>
> await your considered input.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Again, thanks for clearing up that the GWT licensing documentation is in<br>
> error, I can make life easier for several request I have to use the
product.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Allan<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Daniel Berlin [mailto:<a href="mailto:dannyb@google.com">dannyb@google.com</a>]<br>
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 6:40 PM<br>
> To: Hardy, Allan<br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:chris@dibona.com">chris@dibona.com</a>; <a
href="mailto:legal@lists.gpl-violations.org">legal@lists.gpl-violations.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: Google is Violating LGPL Source Code<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Hardy, Allan <<a
href="mailto:allan.hardy@lmco.com">allan.hardy@lmco.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hi,<br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
>> Yep, wrong version, went to FSF and site, old version and went too old<br>
><br>
>> in haste<br>
><br>
>> The section I should have copied is 4 in LGPL 2.1 I copied it
below<br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
>> So, help me understand, is JFreeChart part of the GWT binary<br>
><br>
>> distribution or not?<br>
><br>
> Not current versions of GWT, AFAIK.<br>
><br>
> It was never removed the licensing file.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
>> The Section 6 is only going to apply as you say if you are NOT<br>
><br>
>> distributing the JFreeChart binaries with GWT<br>
><br>
> I'm not sure why you would think this, since it is incorrect, and this<br>
><br>
> is a commonly understood section.<br>
><br>
> But since we meet "your" viewpoint of this anyway, ...<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
>> Example 6b - if already on a customers machine and you link in as a<br>
><br>
>> shared library that kind of thing. But GWT Seems to include the
source,<br>
><br>
>> not make it a pre-requisite the user must install on their own<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This has no bearing on whether that section applies.<br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
>> Are you claiming 6 a, b, c, d, or e? Only 6b or 6e are going to
get you<br>
><br>
>> out of having to provide source.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 6b.<br>
><br>
> I am quite aware of the requirements of the LGPL. I contribute code to<br>
><br>
> a number of GNU projects, besides being a lawyer.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Open Source Programs Manager, Google Inc.<br>
Google's Open Source program can be found at <a href="http://code.google.com"
target="_blank">http://code.google.com</a><br>
Personal Weblog: <a href="http://dibona.com" target="_blank">http://dibona.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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