Is it possible/impossible to develop proprietary software to run on linux?

paolo del bene ninuxpdb at gmail.com
Wed Aug 5 12:22:47 CEST 2009 

ask to Richard Matthew Stallman if Free Software is only a question of
> Religion, i think that he replies to you :-)
>
> Free Software is Not a question of Religion ! is a question of FREEDOM :-)
> Freedom, that Open Source can't grant you. :-(
>
> Free Software and Open Source Software have not nothing in common.
>
> Free Software uses the: GNU General Public License or any other compatible
> with itself.
>
> Open Source uses other licenses that normally are not GNU.
>
> Free Software: Stallman discusses Free Software and GPLv3
> Fedrico Biancuzzi
> http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/04/stallman-discusses-free-softwa.html
> 13/04/2009
> Fedrico Biancuzzi f.biancuzzi at oltrelinux.com
>
> Open Source: We Don't Need the GPL Anymore interview to Eric S Raymond from
> Federico Biancuzzi
> http://onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/30/esr_interview.html?page=last
> 30/06/2005
> Federico Biancuzzi f.biancuzzi at oltrelinux.com
>
>
> 2009/8/5 Jos Visser <josv at osp.nl>
>
> Paolo,
>>
>> Your point is clear, but you have to respect that many people (and/or
>> organizations) do not agree with everything you say and support a
>> different interpretation of the value of open source. Writing closed
>> source software is an individual or corporate decision and the purpose
>> of open source licenses is to spell out exactly what is and what is not
>> allowed. Mixing closed and open source software in one system is quite
>> possible and (from my point of view) helps in the adoption and spread of
>> Linux, so (again, from my point of view) that is Good(tm),
>>
>> For what it's worth I think that Chris's mail makes perfect sense and I
>> wish them all the best in building their new controller based on open
>> source software. I think it's smart of them to do so, and even smarter
>> to come to the list and try to seek some guidance on licensing issues.
>> If only all folks in similar positions would do so.
>>
>> You might not agree with them and you can always start your own company
>> that creates steel cutting machinery completely based on open source
>> hard- and software (the controller included).
>>
>> Even if you do not agree with them then at least respect their decision
>> to do whatever it is they want to do and let's keep the list free of
>> religious discussions which are fun, but pointless.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jos Visser
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 01:49:38AM +0200 it came to pass that paolo del
>> bene wrote:
>> > Today you company can develop a non free software, with all the
>> restrictions
>> > of classic CopyRight, but any person can do the reverse engineering,
>> read
>> > the source code, and decide to develop a free software, which does the
>> same
>> > things, but has not one row of code that you zeland company wrote.
>> >
>> > So you and your company can not to do nothing, because that software, is
>> > free software, has not any portion of code and did the same thing of you
>> non
>> > free software
>> >
>> > Hahaha ! i say
>> >
>> > Paolo
>> >
>> > 2009/8/5 Chris Were <cjwere at gmail.com>
>> >
>> > > Haha!  Paolo I applaud your idealism, and thank you for your lessons.
>> > > There's much I do not know in this field, however consider this:
>> > >
>> > > We are a small company in new zealand manufacturing steel cutting
>> > > machinery, with a touchscreen controller. Our controller is a windows
>> > > applicaion and needs a servo card to drive motors.  We want to move to
>> > > a new platform, eliminate the servo card, go real time in the OS.  We
>> > > can do this at least technically with windows or linux.
>> > >
>> > > We could do an opensource controller under linux (or windows if we
>> > > chose for that matter), but we as a company would be signing our own
>> > > death warrant.  The biggest thing which makes people buy our machines
>> > > over our bigger multinational competitors is the quality of our
>> > > controller, ease of use of it user interface, and flexibilty which
>> > > allows us to do allsorts of odd things with our machines.  If this
>> > > fell into the competitors hands we would lose this advantage, and
>> > > eventually the business would likely fail.
>> > >
>> > > I would guess then that you would recommend to stick with windows, so
>> > > as not to taint GNU/linux with commercialism, and I sympathize with
>> > > that point of view.  However clearly many other companies have built
>> > > proprietary, closed source applications on linux, so it is already
>> > > somehwat "impure".  Further in a vertical market such as ours, if we
>> > > comply with GPL, distribute all the OS and distribution source, and
>> > > our proprietary object-only application (which I now believe is
>> > > legally OK so long as we do it properly), then we are still increasing
>> > > the awareness of opensource and the GNU projects, and we still have an
>> > > income.
>> > >
>> > > Anyway we still have not decided how to proceed.  We are evaluating
>> > > RTX and Intime, windows realtime versions, as well as linux variants.
>> > >
>> > > My point is that we live in a commercial world, for better or for
>> > > worse, rooted in the exchange of commodities, chief of which is money.
>> > >  "Knowledge" is another important commodity, includng intellectual
>> > > property etc, and they are tradeable.  Yes, its a flawed system, but
>> > > it is a reality.  The very computers your GNU software is developed
>> > > and written on would not exist without this model.
>> > >
>> > > Right, I'd better get back to hacking- not sure how to classify this
>> > > on my timsheet! :)
>> > >
>> > > Chris
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:24 AM, paolo del bene<ninuxpdb at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > 2009/8/4 Chris Were <cjwere at gmail.com>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The same reason people build non-free cars, sell non-free food, and
>> > > >> wear non-free clothes Paolo.  Its my job...  :)
>> > > >>
>> > > >> And I know its a heated argument out there but i don't think its
>> > > >> GNU/linux, its just linux.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Cheers,
>> > > >> chris
>> > > >
>> > > > I am sorry for you, but GNU/linux is the operating system, linux is
>> only
>> > > a
>> > > > kernel, i think to start to write a book about kernel, microkernel,
>> who
>> > > > partecipate to the develop, where, why and who is taking advantages
>> with
>> > > the
>> > > > old microkernels....
>> > > >
>> > > > It will be a job that i want to publish under the GNU Free
>> Documentation
>> > > > License.
>> > > >
>> > > > To develop and build non free cars, sell non free food and wear non
>> free
>> > > > clothes is not good and this create only division between people and
>> > > > restriction of their freedom.
>> > > >
>> > > > So to develop non free software is not a good thing.
>> > > >
>> > > > I am happy that you made the example of food, why i listened years
>> ago
>> > > > Richard Matthew Stallman speaking about food and he said that any is
>> free
>> > > to
>> > > > do its own cacke, adding or removing things don't like us.
>> > > >
>> > > > For example to prepare an Apple Pie, any person is free to add more
>> > > > ingredients to offer to more people. ;-)
>> > > >
>> > > > For example "The Pastiera Napoletana" is made with ricotta and
>> candied
>> > > > fruit, but no one forbids us to add the example of pieces of
>> chocolate,
>> > > this
>> > > > would be impossible if the recipe was made with a CopyRight, this
>> has the
>> > > > same and the same effect on non free software, because you can not
>> in any
>> > > > way modify  :-(
>> > > >
>> > > > And this is not good for a community, this is not good for nobody,
>> to do
>> > > > money with free software: "watch RedHat" that has got a little of
>> Ethic,
>> > > why
>> > > > it sold itself to microsoft, when decided to introduce KVM.
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know if you are able to read Italian Language: but if you
>> are
>> > > able i
>> > > > invite you to read: http://paolodelbene.pbworks.com/hacking and
>> > > > http://paolodelbene.pbworks.com/FrontPage
>> > > >
>> > > > Society and sharing with neighbour is more important of money, why
>> you
>> > > are
>> > > > building walls which divide people, you don't help people to share
>> and to
>> > > > learn how to use a software, how to modify.... you are inviting
>> people
>> > > only
>> > > > to do drug and drop, copy, paste, cut.
>> > > >
>> > > > People with non free software must to pray "plug&pray" that non free
>> > > > software works fine.
>> > > >
>> > > > But there are other example more importants such as: time to develop
>> a
>> > > > software, high costs, and the ability to develop a non free software
>> > > > entirely on their own, which is very difficult.
>> > > >
>> > > > So is more easy to partecipate to the develop of a free software
>> having
>> > > the
>> > > > possibility to access to the source code, why people import their
>> > > knowledge,
>> > > > and so any user is free to partecipate, there are not restrictions
>> about
>> > > > software, why the software which they are developping is free
>> software,
>> > > > costs are more less low, and any has got the FREEDOM to use as any
>> want,
>> > > to
>> > > > distribute the software, to do changes, to modify, to do manuals,
>> guides
>> > > > under the GNU Free Documentation License, to sell cd's with a good
>> > > service
>> > > > of assistance.
>> > > >
>> > > > This is the difference between a non free software (the users have
>> not
>> > > any
>> > > > access to the source code) and free software (full access to the
>> source
>> > > > code), to grant Freedom to any user, things that non free software
>> can
>> > > not
>> > > > to do.
>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.gnu.org
>> > > >
>> > > > What is GNU?
>> > > >
>> > > > The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like
>> > > > operating system which is free software: the GNU system.
>> > > >
>> > > > GNU's kernel isn't finished, so GNU is used with the kernel Linux.
>> The
>> > > > combination of GNU and Linux is the GNU/Linux operating system, now
>> used
>> > > by
>> > > > millions.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sometimes this combination is incorrectly called Linux. There are
>> many
>> > > > variants or ?distributions? of GNU/Linux.
>> > > >
>> > > > We recommend the GNU/Linux distributions that are 100% free
>> software; in
>> > > > other words, entirely freedom-respecting.
>> > > >
>> > > > The name ?GNU? is a recursive acronym for ?GNU's Not Unix!?; it is
>> > > > pronounced g-noo, as one syllable with no vowel sound between the g
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > > n.
>> > > >
>> > > > What is Free Software?
>> > > >
>> > > > ?Free software? is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the
>> > > > concept, you should think of ?free? as in ?free speech?, not as in
>> ?free
>> > > > beer?.
>> > > >
>> > > > Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy,
>> distribute,
>> > > > study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to
>> four
>> > > > kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:
>> > > >
>> > > > The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
>> > > > The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your
>> needs
>> > > > (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
>> > > > The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor
>> (freedom
>> > > > 2).
>> > > > The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to
>> the
>> > > > public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to
>> the
>> > > > source code is a precondition for this.
>> > > >
>> > > > Copyright © 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004,
>> 2005,
>> > > > 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>> > > >
>> > > > Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are
>> permitted
>> > > > worldwide, without royalty, in any medium, provided this notice, and
>> the
>> > > > copyright notice, are preserved.
>> > > >
>> > > > Last Updated: $Date: 2009/07/30 12:20:00 $
>> > > >
>> > > > invite to watch:
>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>> > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html
>> > > >
>> > > > about Free Beer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_beer
>> > > > about Free Coke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_(drink)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_%28drink%29>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_%28drink%29>
>> > > > about Free Car
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OScar_(open_source_car)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OScar_%28open_source_car%29>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OScar_%28open_source_car%29>
>> > > >
>> > > > if you want Free Wear i can sell you as you want for example
>> T-shirts of
>> > > > fsf.org, ninux.org and many others.
>> > > >
>> > > > you must only to order and then you have them, so as you can see is
>> not
>> > > true
>> > > > that there are not Free drinks, Cars and Wear.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > a minimum of 10 T-shirts and payment with transfer banking without
>> > > paypal, i
>> > > > don't use it why is a non free method of payment.
>> > > >
>> > > > happy hacking
>> > > >
>> > > > Paolo
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>>
>> --
>> No one ever dreams and lives...
>>
>
>
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