[Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses
Arnt Karlsen
arnt at c2i.net
Fri Nov 21 23:35:15 CET 2008
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:44:34 -0500, Thomas wrote in message
<30dfe2a80811210644j21646c13j2f30459839a0730b at mail.gmail.com>:
> So, file a complaint against them at paypal.
..how? Url etc hints? (I'm a newbie here. ;o))
> That'll get their attention.
..I think I got that all right. ;o)
> Thomas
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Arnt Karlsen <arnt at c2i.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:41:26 +0100
> > From: Arnt Karlsen <arnt at c2i.net>
> > To: flightgear-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear
> > under dubious pretenses
> >
> >
> >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:16:34 -0500, Matthew wrote in message
> >> <f28b49ce0811201716v2e134121v914c62c96da48b3d at mail.gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> > One thing to be *very* careful of is assuming that flightgear has
> >> > some absolute right to control what happens downstream. If this
> >> > company is honoring it's responsibilities under the GPL, there is
> >> > nothing that the FG community can do to prevent it happening.
> >> >
> >> > The GPL enshrines those rights to the recipient, and by extension
> >> > you give up the right of control as an author when you allow code
> >> > to be distributed under the GPL.
> >>
> >> ..except we do _not_ know _whether_ it is being sold under the GPL
> >> here.
> >>
> >> ..the website rather strongly suggest this _is_ software piracy.
> >>
> >> ..therefore the copyright owners has the right to make this fine
> >> seller, _prove_ his compliance to the GPL. (Or, simply call in the
> >> cops. ;o))
> >>
> >> ..absent evidence of such compliance, this becomes a copyright
> >> infringement and criminal case under most jurisdictions, and
> >> there's _ample_ case law suggesting viable solutions. ;o)
> >>
> >> ..in all fairness, I did find _one_ single mention of the GPL,
> >> in: http://flight-aviator.com/images/fps/thumb/picture-0010.jpg
> >> try search it for "ImGply". ;o)
> >>
> >>
> >> ..pay-pal would know of payments made to these people. ;o)
> >>
> >> ..has anyone mirrored http://www.flight-aviator.com/shop/ etc?
> >> I suspect they _are_ aware of our prodding, I could not buy
> >> _anything_, _anywhere_ on their site, from them. ;o)
> >>
> >> > The main thing that the GPL prevents is 'flightsimpro' creating a
> >> > flightsim that has unique features and linking it into the the
> >> > main binary and preventing the release of that. But if the
> >> > developer is keeping their stuff separate (say an advanced-clean
> >> > room implementation of terrasync using different scenery, or a
> >> > bridge to a different flight sim network), again they have done
> >> > nothing wrong by the GPL (distribution of aggregations is a
> >> > confusing area).
> >> >
> >> > Contact with this company would clarify most of this quickly.
> >>
> >> ..like I said above, I suspect they _are_ aware of our prodding.
> >> So I too welcome their _thorough_ clarifications. ;o)
> >>
> >>
> >> ..meanwhile, helpful whois etc output? ;o)
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois flightprosim.com
> >> [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
> >> [Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
> >> [Querying whois.godaddy.com]
> >> [whois.godaddy.com]
> >> The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
> >> while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided "as is"
> >> with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy. This
> >> information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you
> >> in obtaining information about domain name registration records.
> >> Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden
> >> without the prior written permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc. By
> >> submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and
> >> limitations of warranty. In particular, you agree not to use this
> >> data to allow, enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination or
> >> collection of this data, in part or in its entirety, for any
> >> purpose, such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and
> >> and solicitations of any kind, including spam. You further agree
> >> not to use this data to enable high volume, automated or robotic
> >> electronic processes designed to collect or compile this data for
> >> any purpose, including mining this data for your own personal or
> >> commercial purposes.
> >>
> >> Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
> >> in the "registrant" field. In most cases, GoDaddy.com, Inc.
> >> is not the registrant of domain names listed in this database.
> >>
> >>
> >> Registrant:
> >> Domains by Proxy, Inc.
> >> DomainsByProxy.com
> >> 15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
> >> Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
> >> United States
> >>
> >> Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
> >> Domain Name: FLIGHTPROSIM.COM
> >> Created on: 04-Jun-08
> >> Expires on: 05-Jun-09
> >> Last Updated on: 04-Jun-08
> >>
> >> Administrative Contact:
> >> Private, Registration FLIGHTPROSIM.COM at domainsbyproxy.com
> >> Domains by Proxy, Inc.
> >> DomainsByProxy.com
> >> 15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
> >> Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
> >> United States
> >> (480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598
> >>
> >> Technical Contact:
> >> Private, Registration FLIGHTPROSIM.COM at domainsbyproxy.com
> >> Domains by Proxy, Inc.
> >> DomainsByProxy.com
> >> 15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
> >> Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
> >> United States
> >> (480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598
> >>
> >> Domain servers in listed order:
> >> NS45.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> >> NS46.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois flight-aviator.com
> >> [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
> >> [Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
> >> [Querying whois.godaddy.com]
> >> [whois.godaddy.com]
> >> The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
> >> while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided "as is"
> >> with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy. This
> >> information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you
> >> in obtaining information about domain name registration records.
> >> Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden
> >> without the prior written permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc. By
> >> submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and
> >> limitations of warranty. In particular, you agree not to use this
> >> data to allow, enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination or
> >> collection of this data, in part or in its entirety, for any
> >> purpose, such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and
> >> and solicitations of any kind, including spam. You further agree
> >> not to use this data to enable high volume, automated or robotic
> >> electronic processes designed to collect or compile this data for
> >> any purpose, including mining this data for your own personal or
> >> commercial purposes.
> >>
> >> Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
> >> in the "registrant" field. In most cases, GoDaddy.com, Inc.
> >> is not the registrant of domain names listed in this database.
> >>
> >>
> >> Registrant:
> >> KcKpers Ltd
> >> 5a Jasmine place
> >> Wigram
> >> Christchurch, Canterbury 8004
> >> New Zealand
> >>
> >> Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
> >> Domain Name: FLIGHT-AVIATOR.COM
> >> Created on: 25-Aug-08
> >> Expires on: 26-Aug-10
> >> Last Updated on: 25-Aug-08
> >>
> >> Administrative Contact:
> >> Casey, Andrew domainaccounts at gmail.com
> >> KcKpers Ltd
> >> 5a Jasmine place
> >> Wigram
> >> Christchurch, Canterbury 8004
> >> New Zealand
> >> (021) 186-3057 Fax --
> >>
> >> Technical Contact:
> >> Casey, Andrew domainaccounts at gmail.com
> >> KcKpers Ltd
> >> 5a Jasmine place
> >> Wigram
> >> Christchurch, Canterbury 8004
> >> New Zealand
> >> (021) 186-3057 Fax --
> >>
> >> Domain servers in listed order:
> >> NS25.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> >> NS26.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ dig flight-aviator.com
> >>
> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.5.0-P2 <<>> flight-aviator.com
> >> ;; global options: printcmd
> >> ;; Got answer:
> >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49430
> >> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
> >> 0
> >>
> >> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> >> ;flight-aviator.com. IN A
> >>
> >> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> >> flight-aviator.com. 3027 IN A 72.167.131.94
> >>
> >> ;; Query time: 11 msec
> >> ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
> >> ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 03:59:46 2008
> >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 52
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ dig -x 72.167.131.94
> >>
> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.5.0-P2 <<>> -x 72.167.131.94
> >> ;; global options: printcmd
> >> ;; Got answer:
> >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 31358
> >> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
> >> 0
> >>
> >> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> >> ;94.131.167.72.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR
> >>
> >> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> >> 94.131.167.72.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN PTR
> >> p3slh170.shr.phx3.secureserver.net.
> >>
> >> ;; Query time: 147 msec
> >> ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
> >> ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 04:00:00 2008
> >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 92
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois secureserver.net.
> >> [Querying whois.internic.net]
> >> [Redirected to whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> >> [Querying whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> >> [whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> >> No match for "secureserver.net." in the registrar database.
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ dig secureserver.net
> >>
> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.5.0-P2 <<>> secureserver.net
> >> ;; global options: printcmd
> >> ;; Got answer:
> >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 60319
> >> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
> >> 0
> >>
> >> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> >> ;secureserver.net. IN A
> >>
> >> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> >> secureserver.net. 3600 IN A 208.109.132.208
> >>
> >> ;; Query time: 146 msec
> >> ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
> >> ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 04:01:02 2008
> >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 50
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois secureserver.net
> >> [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
> >> [Redirected to whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> >> [Querying whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> >> [whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> >> The data contained in this Registrar's Whois database,
> >> while believed by the registrar to be reliable, is provided "as is"
> >> with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy. This
> >> information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you in
> >> obtaining information about domain name registration records. Any
> >> use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden
> >> without the prior written permission of this registrar. By
> >> submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and
> >> limitations of warranty. In particular, you agree not to use this
> >> data to allow, enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination
> >> or collection of this data, in part or in its entirety, for any
> >> purpose, such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and
> >> solicitations of any kind, including spam. You further agree not
> >> to use this data to enable high volume, automated or robotic
> >> electronic processes designed to collect or compile this data for
> >> any purpose, including mining this data for your own personal or
> >> commercial purposes.
> >>
> >> Please note: the owner of the domain name is specified in the
> >> "registrant" field. In most cases, the Registrar is not the owner
> >> of domain names listed in this database.
> >>
> >>
> >> Registrant:
> >> Wild West Domains, Inc.
> >> 14455 N Hayden Rd #219
> >> Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
> >> United States
> >>
> >> Registered through: WWDomains.com
> >> Domain Name: SECURESERVER.NET
> >> Created on: 30-Mar-98
> >> Expires on: 28-Mar-17
> >> Last Updated on: 29-Aug-08
> >>
> >> Administrative Contact:
> >> Wild West Domains, Inc., Wild West Domains, Inc.
> >> dns at jomax.net Wild West Domains, Inc.
> >> 14455 N Hayden Rd #219
> >> Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
> >> United States
> >> 4806242500 Fax -- 4805058844
> >>
> >> Technical Contact:
> >> Wild West Domains, Inc., Wild West Domains, Inc.
> >> dns at jomax.net Wild West Domains, Inc.
> >> 14455 N Hayden Rd #219
> >> Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
> >> United States
> >> 4806242500 Fax -- 4805058844
> >>
> >> Domain servers in listed order:
> >> CNS1.SECURESERVER.NET
> >> CNS2.SECURESERVER.NET
> >>
> >> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $
> >>
> >> > (A parasite isn't always violating the GPL - a lot of X and
> >> > kernel developers call Ubuntu a parasite since they don't
> >> > contribute a proportional amount upstream.)
> >> >
> >> > Regards... Matthew
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 11/20/08, Stuart Buchanan <stuart_d_buchanan at yahoo.co.uk>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > --- On Thu, 20/11/08, Curtis Olson wrote:
> >> > >> Someone pointed out this site to me. It probably falls into
> >> > >> the category of just barely ok, but I thought I'd post the
> >> > >> link here to get some more eyes on it.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://flight-aviator.com/
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > > One way to discourage this sort of thing would be to include
> >> > > "www.flightgear.org" prominently in the startup screens, in the
> >> > > same way that we include "initializing sub-systems",
> >> > > "initializing scenery".
> >> > >
> >> > > Possibly with an added message along the lines of "Welcome to
> >> > > FlightGear, the free open source flight simulator."
> >> > >
> >> > > That would force the rip-off merchants to at least compile the
> >> > > code, rather than simply replacing some .pngs!
> >> > >
> >> > > -Stuart
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
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