Fw: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under dubious pretenses

Arnt Karlsen arnt at c2i.net
Fri Nov 21 06:51:26 CET 2008



Begin forwarded message:

Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:41:26 +0100
From: Arnt Karlsen <arnt at c2i.net>
To: flightgear-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another person selling FlightGear under
dubious pretenses


> On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:16:34 -0500, Matthew wrote in message 
> <f28b49ce0811201716v2e134121v914c62c96da48b3d at mail.gmail.com>:
> 
> > One thing to be *very* careful of is assuming that flightgear has
> > some absolute right to control what happens downstream.  If this
> > company is honoring it's responsibilities under the GPL, there is
> > nothing that the FG community can do to prevent it happening.
> > 
> > The GPL enshrines those rights to the recipient, and by extension
> > you give up the right of control as an author when you allow code
> > to be distributed under the GPL.
> 
> ..except we do _not_ know _whether_ it is being sold under the GPL
> here.
> 
> ..the website rather strongly suggest this _is_ software piracy. 
> 
> ..therefore the copyright owners has the right to make this fine
> seller, _prove_ his compliance to the GPL.  (Or, simply call in the
> cops. ;o))
> 
> ..absent evidence of such compliance, this becomes a copyright
> infringement and criminal case under most jurisdictions, and 
> there's _ample_ case law suggesting viable solutions. ;o)
> 
> ..in all fairness, I did find _one_ single mention of the GPL, 
> in: http://flight-aviator.com/images/fps/thumb/picture-0010.jpg
> try search it for "ImGply". ;o)
> 
> 
> ..pay-pal would know of payments made to these people. ;o)
> 
> ..has anyone mirrored http://www.flight-aviator.com/shop/ etc?
> I suspect they _are_ aware of our prodding, I could not buy 
> _anything_, _anywhere_ on their site, from them.  ;o)
> 
> > The main thing that the GPL prevents is 'flightsimpro' creating a
> > flightsim that has unique features and linking it into the the main
> > binary and preventing the release of that. But if the developer is
> > keeping their stuff separate (say an advanced-clean room
> > implementation of terrasync using different scenery, or a bridge to
> > a different flight sim network), again they have done nothing wrong
> > by the GPL (distribution of aggregations is a confusing area).
> > 
> > Contact with this company would clarify most of this quickly.
> 
> ..like I said above, I suspect they _are_ aware of our prodding.
> So I too welcome their _thorough_ clarifications. ;o)
> 
> 
> ..meanwhile, helpful whois etc output? ;o)
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois flightprosim.com
> [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
> [Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
> [Querying whois.godaddy.com]
> [whois.godaddy.com]
> The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
> while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided "as is"
> with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy.  This
> information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you
> in obtaining information about domain name registration records.
> Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden
> without the prior written permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc.  By
> submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and
> limitations of warranty.  In particular, you agree not to use this
> data to allow, enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination or
> collection of this data, in part or in its entirety, for any purpose,
> such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and and
> solicitations of any kind, including spam.  You further agree not to
> use this data to enable high volume, automated or robotic electronic
> processes designed to collect or compile this data for any purpose,
> including mining this data for your own personal or commercial
> purposes.
> 
> Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
> in the "registrant" field.  In most cases, GoDaddy.com, Inc.
> is not the registrant of domain names listed in this database.
> 
> 
> Registrant:
>    Domains by Proxy, Inc.
>    DomainsByProxy.com
>    15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
>    Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
>    United States
> 
>    Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
>    Domain Name: FLIGHTPROSIM.COM
>       Created on: 04-Jun-08
>       Expires on: 05-Jun-09
>       Last Updated on: 04-Jun-08
> 
>    Administrative Contact:
>       Private, Registration  FLIGHTPROSIM.COM at domainsbyproxy.com
>       Domains by Proxy, Inc.
>       DomainsByProxy.com
>       15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
>       Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
>       United States
>       (480) 624-2599      Fax -- (480) 624-2598
> 
>    Technical Contact:
>       Private, Registration  FLIGHTPROSIM.COM at domainsbyproxy.com
>       Domains by Proxy, Inc.
>       DomainsByProxy.com
>       15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
>       Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
>       United States
>       (480) 624-2599      Fax -- (480) 624-2598
> 
>    Domain servers in listed order:
>       NS45.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
>       NS46.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois flight-aviator.com
> [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
> [Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
> [Querying whois.godaddy.com]
> [whois.godaddy.com]
> The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
> while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided "as is"
> with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy.  This
> information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you
> in obtaining information about domain name registration records.
> Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden
> without the prior written permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc.  By
> submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and
> limitations of warranty.  In particular, you agree not to use this
> data to allow, enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination or
> collection of this data, in part or in its entirety, for any purpose,
> such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and and
> solicitations of any kind, including spam.  You further agree not to
> use this data to enable high volume, automated or robotic electronic
> processes designed to collect or compile this data for any purpose,
> including mining this data for your own personal or commercial
> purposes.
> 
> Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
> in the "registrant" field.  In most cases, GoDaddy.com, Inc.
> is not the registrant of domain names listed in this database.
> 
> 
> Registrant:
>    KcKpers Ltd
>    5a Jasmine place
>    Wigram
>    Christchurch, Canterbury 8004
>    New Zealand
> 
>    Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
>    Domain Name: FLIGHT-AVIATOR.COM
>       Created on: 25-Aug-08
>       Expires on: 26-Aug-10
>       Last Updated on: 25-Aug-08
> 
>    Administrative Contact:
>       Casey, Andrew  domainaccounts at gmail.com
>       KcKpers Ltd
>       5a Jasmine place
>       Wigram
>       Christchurch, Canterbury 8004
>       New Zealand
>       (021) 186-3057      Fax --
> 
>    Technical Contact:
>       Casey, Andrew  domainaccounts at gmail.com
>       KcKpers Ltd
>       5a Jasmine place
>       Wigram
>       Christchurch, Canterbury 8004
>       New Zealand
>       (021) 186-3057      Fax --
> 
>    Domain servers in listed order:
>       NS25.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
>       NS26.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ dig flight-aviator.com
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.5.0-P2 <<>> flight-aviator.com
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49430
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;flight-aviator.com.            IN      A
> 
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> flight-aviator.com.     3027    IN      A       72.167.131.94
> 
> ;; Query time: 11 msec
> ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
> ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 03:59:46 2008
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 52
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ dig -x 72.167.131.94
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.5.0-P2 <<>> -x 72.167.131.94
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 31358
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;94.131.167.72.in-addr.arpa.    IN      PTR
> 
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> 94.131.167.72.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN     PTR
> p3slh170.shr.phx3.secureserver.net.
> 
> ;; Query time: 147 msec
> ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
> ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 04:00:00 2008
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 92
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois secureserver.net.
> [Querying whois.internic.net]
> [Redirected to whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> [Querying whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> [whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> No match for "secureserver.net." in the registrar database.
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ dig secureserver.net
> 
> ; <<>> DiG 9.5.0-P2 <<>> secureserver.net
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 60319
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> 
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;secureserver.net.              IN      A
> 
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> secureserver.net.       3600    IN      A       208.109.132.208
> 
> ;; Query time: 146 msec
> ;; SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
> ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 04:01:02 2008
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 50
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $ jwhois secureserver.net
> [Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
> [Redirected to whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> [Querying whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> [whois.wildwestdomains.com]
> The data contained in this Registrar's Whois database,
> while believed by the registrar to be reliable, is provided "as is"
> with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy. This
> information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you in
> obtaining information about domain name registration records. Any use
> of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden without
> the prior written permission of this registrar.  By submitting an
> inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and limitations of
> warranty. In particular, you agree not to use this data to allow,
> enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination or collection of
> this data, in part or in its entirety, for any purpose, such as the
> transmission of unsolicited advertising and solicitations of any
> kind, including spam. You further agree not to use this data to
> enable high volume, automated or robotic electronic processes
> designed to collect or compile this data for any purpose, including
> mining this data for your own personal or commercial purposes.
> 
> Please note: the owner of the domain name is specified in the
> "registrant" field. In most cases, the Registrar is not the owner of
> domain names listed in this database.
> 
> 
> Registrant:
>    Wild West Domains, Inc.
>    14455 N Hayden Rd #219
>    Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
>    United States
> 
>    Registered through: WWDomains.com
>    Domain Name: SECURESERVER.NET
>       Created on: 30-Mar-98
>       Expires on: 28-Mar-17
>       Last Updated on: 29-Aug-08
> 
>    Administrative Contact:
>       Wild West Domains, Inc., Wild West Domains, Inc.  dns at jomax.net
>       Wild West Domains, Inc.
>       14455 N Hayden Rd #219
>       Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
>       United States
>       4806242500      Fax -- 4805058844
> 
>    Technical Contact:
>       Wild West Domains, Inc., Wild West Domains, Inc.  dns at jomax.net
>       Wild West Domains, Inc.
>       14455 N Hayden Rd #219
>       Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
>       United States
>       4806242500      Fax -- 4805058844
> 
>    Domain servers in listed order:
>       CNS1.SECURESERVER.NET
>       CNS2.SECURESERVER.NET
> 
> arnt at a45:~/0a16 $   
> 
> > (A parasite isn't always violating the GPL - a lot of X and kernel
> > developers call Ubuntu a parasite since they don't contribute a
> > proportional amount upstream.)
> > 
> > Regards... Matthew
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/20/08, Stuart Buchanan <stuart_d_buchanan at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > --- On Thu, 20/11/08, Curtis Olson wrote:
> > >> Someone pointed out this site to me.  It probably falls into
> > >> the category of just barely ok, but I thought I'd post the link
> > >> here to get some more eyes on it.
> > >>
> > >>     http://flight-aviator.com/
> > >>
> > >
> > > One way to discourage this sort of thing would be to include
> > > "www.flightgear.org" prominently in the startup screens, in the
> > > same way that we include "initializing sub-systems",
> > > "initializing scenery".
> > >
> > > Possibly with an added message along the lines of "Welcome to
> > > FlightGear, the free open source flight simulator."
> > >
> > > That would force the rip-off merchants to at least compile the
> > > code, rather than simply replacing some .pngs!
> > >
> > > -Stuart
> 
> 
> -- 
> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
>   Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
>   best case, worst case, and just in case.
> 
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> 


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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